tim: Tim with short hair, smiling, wearing a black jacket over a white T-shirt (ignorance)
[personal profile] tim
Why I want to set the entire open-source community on fire sometimes: the comments on this post and this post. (The latter of which is from one of my ex-bosses although I ran into it randomly, w00.)

Apparently, if you suggest that using a picture of a woman's bare ass on the title slide of a technical talk might not be the best idea if you want to make women feel welcome in CS, that is ~censorship~. I also can't decide whether it's those comments are the most special, or the ones asking whether also including pictures of naked men in the slides would have made it OK. Also see: examples of more or less every tactic mentioned in the link to "Derailing for Dummies" I posted before this.

I guess it's another entry for the Male Programmer Privilege Checklist. Also, I feel like I need to burn some more reddit karma, brb.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-04-26 04:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cumaeansibyl.livejournal.com
"What does this have to do with your topic?"
"I wanted to keep people's attention."
"We came here to see technical presentations. What does this have to do with your topic?"

Next time someone should put a bunch of baboon asses on their slides, just because.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-04-26 04:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] catamorphism.livejournal.com
And people, after all, are men. (By which I don't mean gay men, because you know, they aren't men.)

(no subject)

Date: 2009-04-26 04:26 pm (UTC)
ext_8103: (Default)
From: [identity profile] ewx.livejournal.com

> 1. Code doesn’t care what gender you are, and code is what matters.


A challenge for language designers, there.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-04-26 07:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fanf.livejournal.com

der int a;

die char b;

das void *p;


(no subject)

Date: 2009-04-26 08:21 pm (UTC)
ext_8103: (Default)
From: [identity profile] ewx.livejournal.com

I'm seized with the notion of using possessives to document memory ownership rules to the compiler (for languages primitive enough to need them!).



your void *malloc(size_t n); // caller owns returned data
void free(my void *ptr); // called takes ownership
my const char *getenv(const char *s); // called still owns return value

(no subject)

Date: 2009-04-26 08:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] catamorphism.livejournal.com
It's been done (http://www.pmg.lcs.mit.edu/~chandra/publications/popl03.pdf) (pdf), but not with that syntax. You should suggest it to them :-)

(no subject)

Date: 2009-04-26 04:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ssaiscps.livejournal.com
Oh man. What is wrong with some people?

Also, shouldn't the privilege list include things that are not blatantly awful? This is like one of the example at a sexual harassment training workshop that seems too outrageous to actually happen nowadays. (I'm sure my thinking this kind of thing is quite rare is some kind of male privilege...)

(no subject)

Date: 2009-04-26 04:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] catamorphism.livejournal.com
I welcome any suggestions, and most if not all of the things on the list are things that really happen (which is why I was trying to attach blog links to some of the more recent ones). Maybe half the things on the list are things that happened to me when I was presenting as female. The women who contributed the other items came up with them for a reason.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-04-26 04:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ssaiscps.livejournal.com
Yeah, I'm just wondering about what the precise definition of "privilege" is. I guess the criterion I suggested above doesn't really have anything to do with it.

bllllll

Date: 2009-04-26 06:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tgies.livejournal.com
what i have generally found is that the open source community is a misogynist cesspool of anarcho-capitalist manchildren.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-04-26 07:43 pm (UTC)
kake: The word "kake" written in white fixed-font on a black background. (Default)
From: [personal profile] kake
Here, borrow my lighter.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-04-26 08:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thewronghands.livejournal.com
Yep. Talking about running a women in security conference last night, we spent a depressing amount of time thinking about all the sucktastic things that we could possibly have to deal with. Bonus fun: schooling a couple of my well meaning male friends as to why something like that might be appealing to women, as opposed to being arrant elitist sexist meaniehood.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-04-26 08:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] catamorphism.livejournal.com
schooling a couple of my well meaning male friends as to why something like that might be appealing to women, as opposed to being arrant elitist sexist meaniehood.

Yeah, I hate that sort of shit. Also see:
"But, but it would be sexist to hire a woman on the basis of gender!" (when talking about affirmative action.)
Gee, do I hear you complaining about how male programmers have been getting hired on the basis of gender for about 50 years?

(no subject)

Date: 2009-04-26 08:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thewronghands.livejournal.com
I think they got the point when I pointed out that we would have to have good security for the event, because our field is full of people who like breaking rules, and we're saying "no you can not has". And every one of them was clearly thinking about how *they* could get in, and me just baldly pointing it out brought them up short. So, hooray for education?

I'll post about it on my own journal sometime when I'm going to be online enough to manage the inevitable arguing. But I'm headed down to Portland for RainSec, so that's not today.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-04-27 01:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] catamorphism.livejournal.com
Ah, Portland! I was going to say "oh hai let's get coffee", but it looks like your schedule is quite full. Have fun!

(no subject)

Date: 2009-04-27 05:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thewronghands.livejournal.com
We're here through tomorrow, if you're free for lunch/early afternoon coffee.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-04-27 05:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] catamorphism.livejournal.com
I have class from 12-1:20pm, but could do lunch after that. Have you been to Food for Thought (student-run vegetarian cafe in the basement of Smith on the PSU campus)? I suggest that or the carts near 4th and Hall, out of self-interest :-) Let me know... you have my number.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-04-27 12:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sethg-prime.livejournal.com
Whatever happened to attracting the audience's attention by showing pictures of cute happy babies?

(no subject)

Date: 2009-04-27 06:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sammka.livejournal.com
Only women are into babies. Men want to see BABES.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-04-27 06:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sammka.livejournal.com
ZOMG I actually clicked through the presentation and I'm pretty sure I'd have either walked out or punched someone if I had to sit through it. It's so beyond just a picture of an ass... my "favorite" is the picture of the fat woman (haha, she's not sexy!) as an illustration of how scaling is problematic.

Lately when people try the formal gender equality arguments (what about if we showed some scantily clad men?) I have responded with the recent study showing that if you show sexist men pictures of scantily clad women, they become even less able than usual to use the social centers of their brains when dealing with women. Women, even "sexist, anti-male" feminists like me, who see scantily clad men don't have this problem. What's that common line I hear from sexist guys? It's not sexist if it's based on reality? Yeah, that! Surely they understand that this same principle has to apply even when instead of meaning that women can't code/do math/be competitive/have a frigging career, it means that they can't look at naked women in a professional environment because they (or at least some of them) can't handle it. So sad.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-04-28 08:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] boojum.livejournal.com
I "enjoyed" the comment from the original presenter, where he said that maybe he should have added some gay porn (hello, male gaze), and that he was not neither sexist, how dare you say such a thing!

(no subject)

Date: 2009-04-28 08:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] catamorphism.livejournal.com
Yeah, I addressed the gay porn comeback in my surprisingly non-karma-burning comment (http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8fgf4/dear_fellow_rubyists_or_how_to_repel_women_from/c094gf6) on reddit.

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